Within the episode, Kailee and Nikhil focus on:

• What sparked the thought to discovered Narmi

Nikhil: Narmi was based in 2016 on my own and co-founder Chris Griffin. We now have a reasonably fascinating founding story the place we met throughout our undergraduate years at Georgetown College. By that have, we principally ran a monetary establishment collectively. We have been CEO and CTO of a government-insured monetary establishment. And really, it was eye-opening to see the tech stack that powered this monetary establishment, and extra broadly talking, the tech stacks that, that energy all 10,000+ monetary establishments within the nation. We weren’t very impressed is type of how I’d characterize our evaluation of the scenario.

We needed to tackle the entire tech stack, however that might take years and years and billions of {dollars} of capital. So what we actually centered in on was the digital expertise. Like, how does our monetary establishment provide a greater account opening, cellular banking, and on-line banking? Only a superior digital expertise that’s on par with client and enterprise expectations at this time. We discovered it actually tough to search out one thing out there that we have been enthusiastic about — in order that was the unique motivation level. That was over 10 years in the past, so we’ve clearly turned loads of that into actuality.

• The core services and products that Narmi offers to monetary establishments

Nikhil: The Narmi platform is extraordinarily deep and very huge and complex and has over 75+ integrations. However the best approach to conceptualize that’s what I’d say is 4 Tier One merchandise.

• Client account opening: So if a financial institution or credit score union desires to allow customers to open accounts with them, both digitally or in department
• Enterprise account oppening: Monetary establishments need companies like an LLC or sole proprietorship or C Corp to open up accounts with them in department or by way of digital
• Client digital banking: Learn how to service these prospects both by way of on-line banking or cellular banking
• Enterprise digital banking: The identical idea however for companies

What’s fascinating is regardless if you are going to buy all 4 of these merchandise or simply a type of merchandise, you additionally get the Narmi admin platform, which is what powers the financial institution or credit score union. Employees use this software to manage these entrance finish instruments. So clearly, it will get far more sophisticated. There are numerous integrations, there are various items of performance you possibly can add on. There’s extra modules, however, sometimes our purpose is to be the digital companion for a monetary establishment. In the event that they wish to do something digitally, we wish them to choose up the telephone and name us, and we’re effectively on our manner there.

• How Narmi works from a technical perspective

Nikhil: So I believe it’s necessary to simply perceive the know-how stack of a monetary establishment. A extremely large a part of that’s the core banking system. Mainly, take into consideration the core because the mind of a monetary establishment. What’s your account stability? What’s your subsequent mortgage fee due? What’s your amortization schedule? How a lot money does the financial institution have on its stability sheet? What’s the weighted period of CDs that the financial institution has? There’s simply a lot info that goes into this core banking system. Usually these cores are offered by one among three corporations, FIS, Fiserv, and Jack Henry. These are corporations which might be fairly giant, comparatively talking. They’ve been round for many years they usually undoubtedly have a really sturdy maintain available on the market. A latest improvement although, actually over the past 5 to 10 years, has been that these cores have change into much more accessible to name it third events however actually companions; they’ve finished that by embracing openness and what that really means in actuality is APIs. So these three corporations I discussed and others now have very sturdy API packages, have publicly documented APIs, have certification packages. This actually didn’t exist 10+ years in the past. So I’m very proud or I’m very completely happy the place the trade has moved. It clearly makes corporations like Narmi extra profitable the place we are able to seamlessly combine into these cores. So, from a technical perspective, an enormous a part of Narmi is integrating with these cores and ensuring that integration could be very sturdy and really steady and really dependable. There’s clearly a ton extra integrations, , with respect to 3rd events like eStatements and BillPay and Distant Deposit Seize and Verify Imaging and Safety and BSA instruments. And once more, I gained’t bore you with that, however, the underlying precept is a financial institution or credit score union has a core, Narmi sits on high of it and is absolutely that buyer going through layer with seamless actual time integration with that backend system.

• The distinction within the buyer expertise for a monetary establishment in comparison with earlier than layering on Narmi’s providers

Nikhil: It’s fairly loopy, it’s not like there’s one factor, proper? It’s not like Narmi does Face ID and the competitors doesn’t. That’s probably not how we give it some thought; it’s this fixed evolution of digital banking that we really feel we’re delivering to our prospects that we really feel our competitors will not be.

What do I imply by that? What we skilled when working our personal monetary establishment, what I do know nonetheless occurs at this time is, a financial institution buys a product, it goes reside, however then the product doesn’t evolve with the identical tempo as client and enterprise expectations. That’s a giant drawback, as a result of monetary establishments are on the identical bar as airways, as streaming providers, as rideshare providers. And to a big diploma, who’s setting these person expectations? It’s Google and rideshare. It’s these mass direct-to-consumer merchandise. However, our buyer base, regional and neighborhood monetary establishments, doesn’t have the assets internally to maintain up with these and that’s why they should rent Narmi.

Let me provide you with an instance. There’s a competitor on the market of ours that “has entitlement controls” for his or her enterprise banking product. That means, if a enterprise proprietor goes in and desires so as to add their accountant and their CFO and their Head of Operations and provides them totally different permissions, they technically on paper can try this. Nevertheless it’s not intuitive. It doesn’t make sense, it’s ridden with errors. And albeit, it’s simpler for them to name in and have somebody try this than use the platform. With us, it’s simply much more intuitive. It’s constructed on cellular, it’s constructed on on-line, the e-mail communications are there, it’s truly thought out from a product led expertise. So once you take one thing like that, once more, certain, you possibly can say you provide it, but when it’s so clunky the place your enterprise proprietor is looking the financial institution, then you definately don’t provide it, let’s simply name it what it’s. So should you take that instance and multiply it by 200 examples, effectively now you’re shifting mountains. And now you’re saying, okay, I’m now shifting all my buyer interactions to digital, you’re due to this fact saving cash within the name middle, within the branches, you’re hiring much less individuals, turning into extra enticing for cash motion. It’s actually a flywheel impact that could be a large a part of the Narmi story.

• How Narmi thinks about segmenting and concentrating on potential prospects

Nikhil: The best manner to consider this market is by asset dimension. Banks can go from $0 to trillions of {dollars} on the excessive finish. Narmy’s candy spot is absolutely proper across the $100 million mark on the low finish and about that $50 billion mark on the excessive finish. We really feel that’s only a actually nice alternative as a result of they’re those that want our assist essentially the most; they’re those that gained’t have the ability to rent 20, 30, 40 engineers per financial institution to do what it takes to take care of your individual platform, they usually want our assist. And we’ve confirmed success in any respect these ranges. I believe we’ve finished an incredible job staffing these totally different monetary establishments in line with their complexity and in line with their wants. In order that’s the simplest manner.

We additionally method them with an incredible dialog across the core banking techniques. So we do phase through core. There are cores we gained’t work with as effectively. We all know we have now very excessive bar for a way we wish our platform to achieve success, and there are undoubtedly some legacy cores which have both their homeowners have introduced they’re being sunsetted or they’re not receiving R&D funding and the investments going elsewhere. However the cores that account for 90% of the market we’re built-in with, so I’m not apprehensive about that, however that’s a good way to focus on the ICP.

Curiously sufficient, we don’t phase by geography. You already know, we really feel profitable that we are able to goal a monetary establishment that’s within the coronary heart of New York Metropolis and that’s digital solely, or somebody that has 113 branches unfold throughout the Midwest or the West Coast. So geography, curiously sufficient, will not be an enormous driver of what we do.

• Promoting to monetary establishments, which have sometimes been risk-averse and sluggish to undertake new applied sciences

Nikhil: What I believe is probably one of many largest tailwinds to Narmi is that banks and credit score unions now consider know-how spend on digital know-how, which is what Narmi does, as investments versus working bills. Conceptually, that could be a enormous mindset shift. You go from “okay, I have to pay for this service.” What occurs in that case? You go for the bottom price. Distributors are very interchangeable; you’re offering a service, you name it a day. It does the job — nice. If not, you discover another person. There’s no loyalty. There’s no partnership. Whenever you shift it to an funding, it’s only a completely totally different ballgame. That’s the place you wish to be, I believe each within the trade we’re in, but in addition in software program generally. I believe these are the kind of corporations that do the perfect. So ours is like, “okay, what are the deposits you’re gonna generate by way of Narmi?” “What’s the income alternative you’re going to get?” “What number of extra prospects am I going to get by way of Narmi?” “Is my member penetration on digital going to go up by way of Narmi?”

I’ll even take this deeper. It’s extra income centered than it’s cost-savings centered. You’re already in a great spot should you’re on the ROI facet. Then I believe you’re in a greater spot should you’re on the income facet versus the cost-saving facet. However there’s additionally an enormous cost-saving benefit to Narmi.

I’m tremendous excited in regards to the future. In fact, it’s not straightforward to promote to monetary providers. Rightfully so, they’re risk-averse. They’ve loads of compliance necessities they actually leaned into. I believe, if you wish to get into this trade or if you wish to be an investor on this trade or something and also you get caught up with slower gross sales cycles or, , the truth that an organization must have their SOC 2, their PCI, their ACH audits, this trade will not be best for you. That’s required to achieve success right here. We’ve spent loads of effort and time and cash in making that potential, however we view that as desk stakes. So, by way of the challenges, I believe it’s simply that, banks generally simply are a bit of bit slower shifting and that simply is what it’s. I don’t fault them for it. I believe that as an trade, we’re very fast to criticize, however, it’s not like we’re doing nothing as monetary establishments. They’re doing so much. Additionally they should be, the regulators are there. So once more, simply working by way of all that could be a problem in its personal, but it surely’s a problem that I believe won’t ever go away, so it’s completely high-quality.

• Who Narmi’s predominant rivals are, and the way Narmi distinguishes its worth proposition from theirs

Nikhil: There are a variety of different digital banking suppliers on the market. I’d say our two largest rivals are an Austin based mostly firm referred to as Q2 eBanking in addition to a Dallas based mostly firm referred to as Alkami. Each glorious corporations; I’ve loads of respect for his or her groups. Actually, we work with them in partnership in some capability and that’s one other fascinating half about this trade, the place loads of your rivals may also be your companions. I believe so long as you’ve mutual respect for one another, I believe each can coexist, which is definitely fairly uncommon generally in SaaS, however one thing that’s wanted. As a result of on one facet, there’s 10,000 monetary establishments, and that’s loads of them, greater than every other nation. However on the opposite facet, there’s solely 10,000, so there’s going to be cross-pollination.

On the worth proposition, look, I believe these corporations do loads of nice issues effectively. I believe from our facet, we have now steady concentrate on person expertise and that fixed innovation tempo. I inform monetary establishments, the primary cause it is best to rent us is as a result of the product you purchase at this time is not going to be the identical because the product you’ve in three months and 6 months and 12 months. And so they virtually pause a bit of bit and say, “what do you imply? We wish the identical product”. And I’m like, “you need the identical product, however you need it to alter over time. You need it to get higher. You need us to push you. You don’t wish to be taking part in catch-up and we’re going to be sure to’re not.” I’d encourage your viewers to go to new.narmi.com: we publicly publish our innovation and we maintain ourselves publicly accountable. I really haven’t seen that in FinTech or wherever in SaaS generally, a minimum of to the diploma we do it (there’s in all probability corporations that do it, simply to be honest, however I undoubtedly don’t see it in our trade).

It was so irritating to me that I’d purchase a product after which possibly a 3 yr contract and I’m sitting there in yr two and I’d be like, “this factor hasn’t moved in any respect. I simply don’t perceive, what did I get the final two years? What did I pay for? Did I pay for simply assist and internet hosting? Effectively, if that’s the case, it ought to be 10% of this worth.” So, very irritating and clearly that drawback is one thing we’re addressing head on.

We’ve additionally obtained a few different differentiators. A number of my competitors set has grown by way of acquisition, which isn’t a foul approach to develop, clearly, at scale, however we’ve written all our code in-house. All of our merchandise are coded in-house in the USA, in New York Metropolis. So we undoubtedly are very R&D-focused. Actually, as a proportion of general income, the quantity we spend on R&D is significantly larger than our public comps, and we all know that as a result of they disclose loads of that of their monetary statements. So yeah, ton of benefits to working with us, however I’d simply name out these as the primary ones.

• How the trade is evolving by way of FedNow, and the way Narmi is enabling organizations to assist FedNow

Nikhil: There’s loads of nice content material on this on narmi.com, so only a plug for what we’re doing. We even have an innovators retreat, which is our biannual convention, the place the director of FedNow Administration is definitely talking with Narmi’s co-founder, Chris Griffin. In order you possibly can inform, very plugged in.

Narmi goes to be a supplier of FedNow. We’re connecting immediately with the Fed and there are just a few benefits of working with us immediately on that. Primary is unquestionably that seamless buyer expertise proper within the cellular on-line banking platform, like with the ability to ship these funds seamlessly proper within the click on of a button out of your cellular app, like getting a push notification. It simply works, and that’s what we’re actually going for right here. Quantity two, we simply have loads of information on the shopper, so, we all know so much in regards to the fraud profile of them and one fascinating factor about FedNow is the fraud part. A number of that’s truly on the seller themselves to construct, like on Narmi itself. There’s no fraud spec that the Fed has launched. There’s steerage for certain, however we perceive the info we have now within the digital banking platform and are making use of that to the fraud protocol as effectively. And I believe as increasingly more FIs undertake this, that’s going to be a essential a part of it. Quantity three, we’re very concerned. FedNow requires lively participation. We’re on committees with them, we’re extraordinarily concerned.

Usually, I undoubtedly see loads of curiosity from our FIs. I believe it’s a bit of bit “wait and see”. For instance, this was the verbatim dialog I had with one among our prospects as not too long ago as yesterday, “Narmi, we totally imagine in FedNow and real-time funds. There’s completely no query that it’s the way forward for funds on this nation.” And it’s apparent as a result of there’s truly a Canadian worker on that decision. He’s like, “we have already got it right here, so I’m already for it.” And we clearly see how Europe is simply years forward of the USA. Nevertheless it’s a brand new fee community on the identical time. So I believe you’re going to see a bit of little bit of a “crawl, stroll, run” method the following yr or so. However our job is to verify FIs are prepared for that. So we’re actually excited, and it’s an enormous funding right here at Narmi.

• How rapidly Nikhil expects to see FedNow adopted throughout the trade

Nikhil: As I used to be saying, it’s pretty new. So do I believe 10,000 out of 10,000 FIs can have FedNow by the top of Q2 ‘24? I don’t. However on the identical time, I believe you’re going to have a set of forward-thinking FIs actually push the needle early in 2024. I believe they are going to be arrange for long-term success as a result of they’ll study from that and they’re going to iterate on it. And I believe you’re going to see trickle-down adoption the following few years, and I believe that’s completely high-quality. Once more, it’s a model new fee community. It is going to take years to roll out, however that’s completely high-quality. Once more, I believe it’s okay that it’ll take years to roll out. And I believe that doing it proper is absolutely, actually necessary. And once more, Narmi has this long-term view of FedNow, however we have now prospects which might be engaged on implementing it proper now as we converse

• What’s high of thoughts for Nikhil on condition that 2023 has been a tumultuous yr for the banking sector

Nikhil: Look, I proceed to stay very optimistic on my buyer base and my prospect base. I believe they do unbelievable issues for this nation, unbelievable issues for small and medium enterprise, unbelievable issues for on a regular basis customers, and I believe they want digital know-how to do these issues effectively. No secret, 99% of economic establishments want extra deposits proper now. So you’re seeing a deposit-led initiative virtually in any respect our monetary establishments. They’re actually getting their merchandise set proper, actually getting their go-to-market proper, getting their pricing proper on charges. I don’t see, a minimum of I’m not being communicated a lower in mortgage demand. So that they’re all searching for deposits to fund these loans. There’s no secret that top rates of interest are totally into impact and undoubtedly lower to the underside line of banks and credit score unions. However once more, simply put all of it in perspective, like, will monetary establishments be a steady and stable supply of simply monetary well-being and safety over the following 10 years? Completely. Will they want digital to succeed over the following 10 years? Completely. So all in all, I attempt to take a medium to long-term view, and that’s type of our mantra at Narmi generally, take a medium to long-term view on issues, as a result of once more, as a theme of this podcast has been, issues take time on this trade. So should you’re optimizing for what’s going to occur in two months, to be sincere, the period of time it takes you to construct one thing that can influence in two months, it’s simply not going to be ok and you actually need to construct stuff to final. And that was our dialog with them now and a number of the stuff on the gross sales cycle. So I really feel good, our pipeline’s sturdy, we’re nonetheless experiencing report income progress. And clearly we’re a a lot bigger firm now than we have been just a few years in the past and nonetheless seeing that top progress fee. So nothing however good issues to say in regards to the subsequent few years, in my view.

• Banks and credit score unions are getting extra meticulous about their tech spend

Nikhil: I see banks and credit score unions actually getting within the weeds on their digital tech stack and tech spend and analyzing it. I believe the perfect prospects I’ve know all the way down to the penny how a lot they spend to accumulate a brand new client shopper, a enterprise shopper, and the way a lot it prices to service them, whether or not that’s the Narmi expense or their core banking expense. They’re simply very meticulous about their tech spend and I undoubtedly see that taking place.

That should occur at increasingly more banks and credit score unions as a result of that can power them then to consider their know-how stack as a progress lever and as an funding software versus simply an expense. I believe you’re simply going to see banks and credit score unions simply get so much smarter in regards to the digital spend particularly. Then, they’re going to say, “Okay, how can we wish to deploy that? Will we wish to deploy that in account opening and digital banking and MarTech and one thing extra AI-driven?” That I believe nonetheless stays to be seen. There is no such thing as a scarcity of distributors that might like to promote to banks and credit score unions in all equity, so I believe it’s only a matter of choosing those that take advantage of sense for his or her enterprise.

• Whether or not what Narmi appears to be like like at this time is what Nikhil envisioned when he began engaged on the corporate

Nikhil: You already know what? The reply is sure. I’m actually, actually pleased with that. One factor that we pleasure ourselves on is that our mission assertion has by no means modified. We by no means needed to pivot the corporate’s targets or imaginative and prescient. I’ve this slide I like to indicate to new joiners after which in exterior shows and it simply graphs all of the merchandise we’ve constructed over each single yr and it’s simply unbelievable and insane how a lot we’ve constructed. It’s so motivating; we’re at a degree on our firm virtually eight years in the place we’ve constructed a ton of basis. So now the roadmap shifting ahead is absolutely constructing on all these merchandise and making them extra sturdy and extra platform heavy and extra integration deep. So I believe we obtained loads of issues proper and I don’t take that as a right. I believe that have working our personal monetary establishment is a big a part of that. Hiring nice people who find themselves actually purchased into serving our buyer base can be an enormous a part of that. And yeah, simply staying centered. We strive to not get distracted. So its been an incredible journey and I hope in eight extra years from now we are able to say, “we’re nonetheless engaged on the identical factor, simply digitizing banks and credit score unions.”

• How Narmi approached growing their suite of merchandise

Nikhil: You simply should take heed to your prospects and you must take heed to your prospects. So I’ll simply provide you with an instance. In 2018, we delivered to market client digital banking. We took monetary establishments reside on our cellular on-line banking platform for customers. And their suggestions was, “that is actually nice, and I wish to put tens of 1000’s, a whole lot of 1000’s of customers on it, however how do I get them?” What they’re actually asking for is an account opening software. How do you layer on a manner that’s proper earlier than cellular on-line banking to get them in. That’s when client account opening got here.

Then what occurred was, “Okay, that is nice. We wish this identical precise factor for companies”. So that you simply should be tremendous lockstep along with your prospects and along with your prospects. Each are necessary as a result of prospect wants shall be totally different to buyer wants. Prospects have already purchased your product and prospects are already carried out. So that they’re going to need enhancements to these present merchandise. Whereas prospects are those saying, “Hey, we could not purchase any product you’ve”. So once more, very, very totally different. However that’s the primary factor. It’s essential to simply actually concentrate on that.

Quantity two, simply proceed to have pulse of what’s occurring in monetary providers, what’s occurring in different person experiences. I’ll provide you with one other instance. So we launched a performance referred to as Unified Login. The entire premise is should you’re a client however you even have a enterprise on the facet. we wish you banking with the identical monetary establishment. That is a crucial cross-sell alternative. However from a digital banking expertise, what’s that have like? Do you’ve two separate logins? It’s important to sign off, log again in. Okay, do you’ve one login and see the whole lot? However then do you’ve enterprise providers? However do you even have client providers? Do you’ve each? It will get very messy. So one factor we drew inspiration from was Gmail. Folks have a number of Gmail addresses and you’ll hyperlink them very simply in your cellular Gmail app or on-line Gmail app, and you’ll toggle between them. So we constructed one thing similar to that in banking. So like, you’ve your enterprise, but in addition your client, you simply log into your app, go within the high proper, toggle to your enterprise, do all of your wants, toggle again to client. It saves these periods, it’s powered by biometrics. That could be a 10X characteristic in my view, and our competitors doesn’t have that. So yeah, I’d say the second half is having a very good pulse on what’s occurring and identical to finest in school SaaS, finest in school person experiences, after which seeing how they apply to monetary providers.

• Learnings from growing earlier merchandise that impacted how he went about growing future merchandise

Nikhil: If I used to be to say one factor, a theme of what I’ve spoken about at this time is issues take time. And I believe that could be a actually necessary lesson, whether or not you’re a tech entrepreneur, whether or not you’re serving monetary providers or promoting to monetary establishments, issues simply take time. So the perfect factor to do, or the perfect lesson we discovered is choose a yearly purpose. I believe yearly is the appropriate period. And ensure that purpose is large although, it shouldn’t be like a really small purpose within the yr, however I believe setting annual targets after which constructing in the direction of these and monitoring them all year long, a minimum of on this trade, I believe is a very wholesome approach to do it. And it’s worthwhile to be completely happy, should you say, “okay, if we hit this purpose, that is what the enterprise appears to be like like on the finish of the yr”, be sure to’re extraordinarily proud of that desired consequence. You then simply should encourage your staff to execute on these targets.

So I do know you requested about constructing earlier merchandise, however that’s the lesson: you can’t do the whole lot in a yr on the product facet. So be actually proud of the place you wish to be on the finish of the yr from a product facet and decide to that after which attempt to keep centered on that as a result of there shall be loads of shiny objects that present up all through that yr. However when you have that yr finish purpose from the product facet, it actually serves as this stunning North Star that could be very useful.

• Narmi’s short-term targets, and the place Nikhil sees Narmi 5 years from now

Nikhil: Our short-term targets are proceed to execute. We now have a ton of nice merchandise that we’d like to get within the palms of extra monetary establishments. We now have a ton of consumers which might be completely happy and will use extra progress, and our purpose is to make them extra profitable as effectively by way of our present merchandise.

We do have some main initiatives round FedNow. We talked about that a bit of bit. We’ve launched some actually cool openness instruments, Narmi Capabilities is what we name it. It’s principally a low code approach to lengthen Narmi. So if you wish to automate emails getting despatched out or if you wish to arrange a name each time somebody opens their account welcoming to the financial institution, you possibly can set that up and you’ll automate again workplace processes. So getting that extra within the palms of our prospects and serving to them perceive it’s enormous.

On the five-year plan. Simply taking a step again, our mission assertion is fairly easy. It’s “be the perfect digital banking supplier to monetary establishments, interval”. Prefer it actually says, interval. That’s what I need us doing in 5 years. And what’s that going to imply in 5 years versus at this time? Far more merchandise, much more enterprise, extra extensibility, extra openness. It’s going to imply a lot in 5 years, however the nice half is that mission assertion will keep the identical. We’re going to do all these issues as a result of we’re assured it should assist that mission assertion. In order that’s what I wish to be doing. We’ll undoubtedly have a whole lot of consumers by then. This can be a purpose. And look, it might be a disgrace to not point out the staff and tradition and sustaining what we have now. I’m continually in awe of everybody who works right here and I take into account it a privilege to study from them and work alongside them; persevering with to take care of that staff, particularly as we scale, shall be essential. Once more, I don’t wish to decrease our hiring bar 5 years from now, despite the fact that we’ll be a thousand-employee firm.

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About Narmi

Narmi affords cutting-edge digital banking and digital account opening platforms to monetary establishments. The platform — constructed for the enterprise — permits monetary establishments to open accounts in lower than 2.5 minutes, after which develop that relationship over a lifetime by way of intuitive cellular and on-line channels. Each single product at Narmi integrates with main core banking techniques.

About Nikhil Lakhanpal

Nikhil Lakhanpal is the Co-Founding father of Narmi. Previous to Narmi, Nikhil ran a monetary establishment as CEO and in addition held roles in Funding Banking at Citi.

In regards to the Creator

Kailee Costello is an MBA Candidate at The Wharton Faculty, the place she leads the Wharton FinTech Podcast staff. She’s most obsessed with how FinTech is breaking down limitations to make monetary services and products extra accessible — significantly within the private finance area. Don’t hesitate to succeed in out with questions, feedback, suggestions, and alternatives at kaileec@wharton.upenn.edu.

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